You can read it at Rocky's
Of poisons and toxic in Pengerang
and Big Dog's
Phantoms of Pengerang
Ok, I admit that I was beaten to that story behind my backyard in Johor by those two senior bloggers.
Well, actually I know about the story but didn't deem it important enough to warrant an immediate posting.
It was probably the too much ketupat and rendang which made me a bit slow in the brain.
Anyway, I had first posted about the Pakatan's plot for Pengerang as early as February at Cooking Lynas-style nonsense for Pengerang
Yes, they tried several times to cause troubles for the project but after a few pathetic attempts and the Johor government's effective counter measures, I really thought that they had all packed off and admit defeat.
As it turned out, they are now back in Pengerang. Maybe their foreign financiers had pumped in more cash to extend their campaign there. Everyone may had noticed by now that the Pakatan's attack on the Pengerang petroleum hub project is spearheaded by Malaysiakini which is heavily funded from outside the country.
Their campaign this time around centered on the relocation of Chinese graves in the area. Now, if that is not pathetically desperate, I don't know what to say la. Using the dead to gain political mileage is as despicable as it can get. Of course the main aim here other then to sabotage the project was obviously to incite the Chinese, especially those who are going to vote in Johor to vote for them in anger.
By the way, not much problem it seems when it comes to the relocation plans of
muslim graves.
What happened was, during a recent meeting between the developer, State government's officials and residents of Pengerang, a bunch of people who were mostly from outside the area turned up and made so much noise over the graves relocation issue. They simply do not want to listen to the explanations by the officials. Well, you know, it was really that pasar borong kinda behavior, if you know what I mean. Later on I found out that these people are "weekend villagers" who come down to Pengerang once in a while to lepak there. The majority of the local Chinese folks there are actually quite ok with the whole thing and are reasonable people.
Relocation of graves for development projects is actually quite common. The latest in Johor which I can remember was when Iskandar Investment Bhd (IIB) relocated the graves at Pendas Laut as part of the relocation of the villagers there. It was done efficiently and without much fuss. There were several Chinese graves involved in that exercise. Well, no Pakatan people turned up there to cause trouble. Probably because the project was not big enough for them to exploit to win more votes.
Anyway, the Johor government had handled such things before and I think they know what to do with the situation in Pengerang now. Sorry ya Pakatan people, there is going to be no Lynas-style nonsense in Pengerang. Of course unless you all want the whole thing about the Chinese graves to really become a racial issue. Do you all really want it to be that?
By the way. what is it with these urban anti-development types that politicize other people's futures for their own little gains? The PIPC development in Pengerang has such huge potential of bringing in high value jobs and business opportunities to Pengerang. Smart local boys need not go elsewhere to find decent paying jobs, while not so smart ones will get to see their neighbors doing well and will aspire to do well too.
There will be spin-off businesses that benefit local service providers such as laundry, cleaning, hospitality, catering, etc. Local farmers can get extra income by providing produce to the local catering businesses, while local fishermen can earn extra income from high-spending hobbyists during their weekend fishing trips. Then there is the assistance by the state for these people to start something new, extra, etc.
There are so many complaints by these perasan pandai types about Malaysia being left behind la, not being as good as Singapore la, yada, yada, yada. Non-stop complaining, and yet these are the very same people who protest against big development projects that will catapult Malaysia into a regional hub comparable to Singapore's Jurong complex, if not better. You prefer Pengerang folks to continue going to work in Jurong as opposed to working nearer to home ke?
Seriously la, don't you urban anti-development activists feel kesian for these local folks? Why must you block their chance to improve their household income nearer to home? Why won't you hold a civilized and constructive dialogue with the state planners and ensure the project will truly benefit locals and the nation as a whole? Why la so small-minded, ha, you anti-development urbanites?
I smell DAP and Pakatan in all these, they just love to exploit the dead for their political mileage. Alas they do not know that the Johor State Gomen is used to grave relocations for land development so I don't think it will be a problem, orang Johor are development friendly.
ReplyDeleteThey (DAP/PKR) will spin anything on earth to gain support
ReplyDeleteJudging from what is happening in Pengerang, I think they will spin anything not on this earth too.
DeleteDumno also gostan. DAP with its rockets have join the yankees in mars - spinning to advance science and technology. DUMNO is Tech NO LOGy only.
DeleteRM 60 billion project shrouded in secrecy ? Whichever party you support, I hope you are not blind to asking the right questions.
ReplyDeleteWhat secrecy? You just go and ask the Petronas people nicely la what you want to know. They will answer one. Simply want to spin is it?
DeleteI am still waiting for answers. Can you help by forwarding the questions below to Petronas ? Or maybe you don't bother to ask the questions.
DeleteBig Cat is your servant is she? You want her to put all the documents of the project on her blog is it? Why don't you instead go check yourself. Then once you find the scheming of the BN people, you make la the exposure at Malaysiakini.
DeletePetronas cannot even give the answers as to how much is being paid to DUMNO. Dumno have been gorek Petronas and that is why the big boss left and work in Sinkapore.
DeleteEh dumbell, if Petronas has been paying to Umno, you think the bloody company can survive and prosper till now ka? You got brain or not?
Deletenumbers don't lie. if petronas so bad and not transparent, how can we be ranked as top 15 most profitable company in the world by forbes, despite losing the guy who left for singapore 3-4 years ago? petronas has a strong management team and is something we, as malaysians, can be proud of. not run by 1 man ok?
DeleteRM60 billion in secrecy? are u kidding? go do your own benchmarks on these projects around the world. numbers are there. also, not all rm60billion comes from petronas? it includes foreign investors such as bsaf - as announced and others. petronas has been announcing progress each time it signs. no reading?
will be upset with petronas if they spend their time answering your idiotic questions rather than focusing on growing hte bottom line and business....
Dumno - sure Petronas is making all the money. But where did all the money goes? Top 15 company in the world. So where are all the only???? Twin tower built years ago. But now where is the $$$$? Can DUMNO tell us?
DeleteWoi bodohs.....petronas staff getting big bonuses, and you nerds argue here in cyberspace. better you people think of your future in malaysia, looking at the world economy and dumno politics
Delete" The PIPC development in Pengerang has such huge potential of bringing in high value jobs and business opportunities to Pengerang. "
ReplyDeleteHow many jobs ? How many of them for locals ? If you read the initial report on the PKFZ project, there was a similar line stating all the benefits of the project. PKFZ is but a fraction of this petrochemical complex.
Go to Kerteh and Malacca and check with the locals there whether the Petronas petrochemical hubs there help them. If not, not only should the Pengerang project be scrapped but those in Kerteh and Malacca should be closed down too. Is that ok with you?
DeleteHey Dumno, I didn't ask for Penggerang to be scrapped. I don't care about the relocation issues, or the issue of graves. If it's good, I support. But there is no public relations, no answers to NGO's questions. When you feel someone is hiding something, you naturally must korek, korek, korek lah.
DeleteYou so good you korek yourself la. Simply criticize without facts is it? Just want to spin out of thin air is it?
DeleteBigCat:
ReplyDeleteHave you read the EIA report ? Do you know the actual products that the project is supposed to produce ? Are these products dangerous and require further layers of security and supervision ? Who is the Taiwanese investor, and why did they come to JB ? Why didn't they go to China or is it because the products are deemed to be too polluting even for China ?
Or is it because we have cheaper water ?
I don't mind industries coming to Malaysia, but I do mind if those industries have been "banned" or "discouraged" elsewhere and let my country be a dumping ground. I want transparency.
Do you have the answer to all those questions yourself. If you do, why don't you make it public and argue why the Pengerang project should be scrapped. If you can't, then the next time they have a dialogue session on the project, you better listen carefully to their explanation instead of making all sorts of noises about the relocation of the Chinese graves just to win the sympathy of the Chinese voters.
DeleteTypical BN apologists, no answers to real questions, ask people to go fly kite. Same as Lynas - without the people's questions, the project would never have received same level of security/environmental protection that it now purports to have.
DeleteTypical Pakatan cybertroopers. No point explaining anything to them. They will never listen. Their agenda is not to save the environment or the welfare of the people. Their agenda is to spin everything into issues so they can get more votes.
DeleteTypical DUMNO people, just want to hoodwink the people by awarding contracts at the highest prices. Think we don't know eh ?
DeleteWait for the project to fail, like PKFZ, then use more Petronas funds to bail out the project. BN uses project to enrich itself thru contracts, then deliberately makes the project incur cost overruns for further skimming of funds, then ultimately cost the project to fail so that some white knight like Petronas or EPF has to bail it out with even more money.
DeleteDUMNO, you are playing with OUR money, so go and answer our questions honestly and clearly and not come here to spin your story of how great the project is going to be.
The truth hurts....not so easy to hoodwink the rakyat nowadays....
DeleteSometimes I wonder whether some of these commenters even know what they are protesting about. The list of comments by these Anons here are reflective of their tendency to simply protest without even bothering to find out about what they are protesting. If this is the level of their understanding of the PIPC, then I have serious doubts about their reasons for protesting and their sincerity towards the people of Pengerang.
DeleteWhat la you Big Cat, let through all these dumb comments. Try Pakatan style blogging la. All comments not to their taste won't see the light of day. Their Malaysiakini and Malaysian Insider thought them that.
Deletei don't know why la. i waste time writing this.
Deletefirst of all. it is petronas. they have done this before at kerteh, melaka, kuantan, etc. they will do what it takes to make it work and to ensure our safety. further, petronas is bringing in multinationals from countries in europe, whom environmental standards are more stringent with the most modern technology.
u think china don't want this project? they are upset you know!? they are building petchem and refineries like crazy! how can taiwan build such a key asset in china. your raw materials will be held at ransom. don't you know where these raw materials from refinery and petchem end up? your everyday use from pampers, to laptops, semi-con, cell phone, cars, etc. and what is taiwan known for??????
look. think. they like johor because it's strategic and close to singapore as a trading hub. we are creating synergies and scale with RAPID coupled with singapore to do trading. u look at hte dot to teh south. 3rd largest refinery and petchme in the world and still growing. no problem wiht environment what. don't give some bullshit excuse they start on jurong island because the first refinery was build on the mainland along pioneer road and you have petchem lined up around jurong (not island) not far from HDB flats. island only came later when they had no more land to expand.
bottom line. this is a value adding industry. if we miss this opportunity, well, forget about adding value to our natural assets. work for it. don't be lazy and just take the easy way out and sell it to singapore and watch them prosper...
Hi, Allow me to provide you with an answer. FYI I used to be in the O&G industry. Though this may sound Pro-Pengerang, I'm just naming my logical facts that i reason to support this project.
Delete1. The Environment will be better off and controlled with this project. Why? If you don't know, this area is famous for diesel/people smugglers (Polis already said so tons of time when some smuggles drown or get caught). In previous years there were many cases of these guys & their "Clients" dumping/dropping barrels of oil into the water(Look at old newspaper reports). With this project, regulation of the environment will be better plus if anything goes wrong we have somebody to blame and hold responsible to pay unlike the smugglers?
2. The actual products are the same as existent Petro-chemical terminals in Malaysia. CPC corporation is the company. Nothing special that they do other than normal petro-chemical. As mentioned, Kerteh, Melaka, Kuantan, Langsat, they all have the same petrochemicals? Notice no environmental or hazardous damage in their years of operation? The Taiwanese company deals normal Petro-chemical stuff we already have long been doing, look at their website. Don't confuse this with Lynas. Lynas is Radioactive & one of a kind. Petro-chemical is all over the world.
3. Use some common political sense/investor sense. You think its Wise for a TAIWANESE(TAIPEI) company to put in a big investment into CHINA? Obviously theres a risk China can cut them off anytime should relations sour. They were never rejected in China, only in Taiwan. Saw alot of articles saying that it was rejected in Taiwan, yet only one same article saying in China that was circulated all around. Tt was a government supported project but somehow got rejected during elections time? Sounds familiar.
4. Why our waters? we have the most strategic waters not to mention were right next to singapore, one of the worlds biggest Petro-chemical hub. There's no where better in malaysia than Pengerang to create a petrochemical industry where it is. were talking billions of ringgit worth of foreign investments. Look into history and that strait between Singapore and Johor has always been a strategic trade point.
Economic benefits are obvious. These issues affecting Pangerang, are ones that had existed with previous other projects. (Iskandar development moved graves) yet i dont know why in this project they have shot up into major issues. I've seen many Chinese & malay graves get moved. What's so special about the ones in Pengerang? Politics. thats what's special.
Anyway thats just my 2cents. Its all facts and I reason with it.
Try to bluff. Taiwanese has been dumping billions into China and China market is SO Big with million of millionaires over there and thousands of millions of middle class and demand of oil and by products for its transport and manufacturing industries. How many millionaire in mlaysia after 60 years of indpendence as compare to 20 years of market liberisation in China. So it is a good sense for taiwnaese to have a petrochemical hub in China than in Malaysia
DeleteSo it would have nothing to do with the other billions that other companies in the world are dumping into china? or the billions of populations and business run by chinese? or the Billion dollar PetroChina and their companies?
DeleteYou dont understand the political situations of such an important industry. would you put into a country with problematic diplomatic relations?
And it would make sense to have a petrochemical hub in China then Malaysia where the biggest Petrochemical hub in the world is Singapore? Building it right next to one doesnt make sense? The market is much bigger than china my friend. Open your mind to the facts. do some research
This whole thing reminds me of those days when the opposed the construction of the North-South Expressway, Penang Bridge, etc. Anyone remembers the incident when Lim Kit Siang refused to pay toll in protest? Real jokers.
ReplyDeleteYes I remember the opposition to Penang Bridge, KLCC, the LRT & Dayabumi but once built, many people use Penang Bridge & the LRT, while crowds throng Suria KLCC, while Dayabumi is kind of run down now.
DeleteWhile I was one of those who opposed Penang Bridge and Dayabumi in the 1980s, I have kind of gotten tired with opposition for opposition's sake.
And wasn't the NS Expressway bailed out, and the concession period extended when we should be getting toll-free service by now ? That's the problem with DUMNO, they steal and steal right now, and leave the burden to future generations. Pi jual goreng pisang lah...
DeleteDumno just love to argue. We oppose the projects because they are not transparent. They only benefits Dumno more that is why they are arguing until irrelevant.
DeleteYou don't like paying toll, you use the trunk roads. How I wish all Pakatan people especially DAP cybertroopers only use trunk roads in protest of the toll. Less traffic jam at the highway during Raya and other festivities.
DeleteYou love to PAP, why not pay for all of us?
DeleteBig Cat,
ReplyDeleteI have an off-topic question.
During Hari Raya, my Malay neighbour whose family is from Penang told me he had heard from people that Pakatan Rakyat stands a good chance to win in Johor, which to me seems rather unlikely.
In your honest opinion as a Johorean living in Johor, what do you see & hear is the feeling on the ground over there?
My honest opinion is Pakatan has a chance to win in Kulai, Gelang Patah, Skudai, Senai and Puteri Wangsa. Extremely difficult for Pakatan to actually win Johor and support for them are actually declining among the Malay fence sitters.
DeleteWah, from north can even hear what is happen at the tip of the penisular. Never realise that typhoon has occur in Malaya?
DeleteAllow me to respond to the issues you raised.
ReplyDeleteDo not compare your cultural norms to that of another race. The Chinese have no objection if your idea or morning the death is to pack and send the dead at the fastest possible time. Chinese do it differently. There is a proper sense of respect for dead. The period of paying respect, the burial and respect for yhe eternal place of abode for the deceased are of importance to them.
In Pengerang there are some 7000 graves of Chinese and some are hundreds of years. If the government and the investors are genuine in their desire to resolve, then place it on table the honest and genuine plan how and where the relocation of the graves are going to be. You just cant say or just point to a swamp and point thats the relocation site for the Chinese graves while untuk menjaga kesucianumat Islam dan mereka yang telah meninggal you identify a land and place of choice ( together with full financial support).
With regard to the development plan, the fact is the majority who are involved in fishing and aquatic industry are going to pay a heavu price and their lifelihood gone. Maybe the Malays being Malays will get all the financial help but what about the Chinese. Both the Chinese and the Malays musy be made a stakeholder by the government and the company in any development plan. In any event, the huge project is going to transform Pengerang and Desaru. In quick time its going to turn into a Pekan Bangla.
Those activist who came to Pengerang and gave a briefing are not dumb assed fcuks bit came to share their experience of a similar style project which was rejected by the people because the enviromental and the loss of lifelihood wa far greater.
Development is a must but it must not be clouded in secrecy or soothed in words of asurance. Honesty and frankness ought to be the order of the day. Leave out the politicians from doing the bidding for the government but the company should clarify and allay the peoples concern. Ask the people has the company done it? They will say no but instead the government is ochestrating the largest land grab. Its Gelang Patah once again where tanah diambil dengan pampasan rendah dan dijual kepada syarikat X yang kemudiannya faraidkan kepada syarikat Y and all making money except the poor Malay and the same is going to happen again to the Malays and Chinese in Pengerang.
Guess what there os going to be a Land Office Hearing on the 3rd of September for the lands being acquired and lo and behold the government component party has appointed a valuer to value the village folks land and guess who will pay the valuer' fees? The acquiring company! So ask yourself, in whose best interest would the valuer act on.Surely not in the interest of the affected Penggerang folks. Worst of all see the complicity of the government ruling party in "assisting" the land owners dispose of their land in favour of the acquiring company based on the valuation report of valuer appointed by the government component party and the valuers fees paid by the acquiring company. What a scam.
Orang Melayu hanya selepas kehilangan tanah mereka oleh mereka yang harapkan pagar, pagar makan padi dan selepas mendapati tanah melayu hanya tinggal landasan kereta api TANAH MELAYU dan kubur Melayu akan sedar bagaimana bangsa sendiri mereka menipu mereka.
So Bigcat, stop writting such articles from your hoighty high horse but go to yhe ground and listen to the grievances, concerns and worries.
I happen to know that the valuation is being done by the Valuation Dept. So stop misleading people. Private valuators can be hired by individuals and be brought to the hearing at their own cost. The land acquisition is being done strictly according to processes and procedures in compliance to the relevant Acts and Laws by the Land Office and the Valuation Dept. All that information is available publicly and that was the reason for the hearings and dialogues that was hijacked by the rowdy protesters. All the questions being raised here by commenters can also be asked to the officers at the District Office and at the PISP Where officers are available to answer such questions. Have you even bothered to ask them?
DeleteMust be the marvel comics for a WO Man to know about plane and valuation.
DeleteOfficers at the district office and at the PISP to answer our questions? they don't even know what MTBE is....and they don't understand the term 'carcinogenic'.
DeleteItu fancy punya words, you mau tau just google saja lah. You tau tak apa itu google? Very easy ma...tanya same budak sekolah pun tau....ok?
DeleteAnybody knows how the Chinese government of Singapore relocated their ancestors' graves for development purposes? Maybe can copy from them to "menjaga kesuci murnian" the Chinese graves in Pengerang.
DeleteWhy racist to talk about Chinese Government across? If you continue to be in racial tone then will the answer comes from here is non chinese government. Dumno only good is bring out race and religion - dividing the country using race and religion
DeleteThats bullshit Bigcat, go and meet the people and a letter of appointment of valuer named VPC from Johor Bahru has been handed over to the residents and some 35 residents have misleadingly signed the letter of appointment. Typical BN apologist. Talking through the ass and in denial mode even when presentedwith the facts.
ReplyDeleteTypical Pakatan cybertroopers. Start to curse the other side whenever presented with hard facts.
DeleteHei Anon 04:27,
DeleteHasn't Anon 04:09 presented facts and details of a company appointed by the land aquiring company to do the valuation which calls into question the credibility of the calculation of the compensation. Worst of all MCA has circulated the forms to the Pengerang residents and some 35 people misleadingly signing the form. Anon 04:09 even challenges Bigcat on this info.
The reply by Bigcat? Just to shrug it off and deny and attack the Pakatan Rakyat cybertroppers.
You may not have the cojones but surely you have the tits to raise to the challenge and prove Anon 4:09 wrong.
all they want to do is to quickly acquire the land, by hook or by crook, so that the contracts can start. that's the modus operandi of people who can never be transparent, who will then say 'who,s going to compensate me for work already done?". Just like the crooked bridge project where the contractor put up a few pillars and the gomen compensated them over 100 million.
ReplyDeleteBig Cat, awak punya commenters very low standard la. Very stupid. Kasi tuduh suka hati saja. Saya pun penat la baca mereka punya bullshit.
Delete....what to do, its like that la...tak apa, bagi mereka kata apa pun :-)
Deletethis is quite sad really. a lot of work has been done on the ground by the state, but been constantly hijack by interests groups - some come as far as penang, singapore and melaka, and, of course, the ones that will lose millions as a result of the project...smugglers...
Deletethe state is just following due legal process and is transparent.
what is not so transparent my friend is the ownership of the land. i think there lies the issue and some of the people/"victims" affected are not as transparent as they claim to be and are probably making the most noise. if they are found...well...not so good la.
'low standard' kata DUMNO. Kenapa tak berani panggil PRU? lepas PRU, kita akan tahu siapa yang low standard. Kita akan tahun siapa yang akan masuk penjara.
DeleteHei Bigcat, you say that the Land Office has done the valuation or provided the valuation of the land. Isn't it amazing the department trying to evict them calculating the compensation for the landowners whose lands are being acquired by the company. Case of "you hep me, I hep you".
ReplyDeleteAlso stop being in denial mode. MCA gave a form to the Penggerang land owners affected by the acquisition, an appointment of valuer company VPC having address at Johor Bahru.
The said appointment letter states :
The valuer company is consented by the landowner to do the valuation.
The valuer's fees are paid by the Company acquiring the land.
Now ask yourself, in whose interest the valuer company will act judiciously and fairly.
Being a Malay at least stand up for the Malays whose land is going to be seized cheaply.
Land valuation is done by JPPH (Department of Valuation), not land office per se. They would have all the transactional records in the period of interest (before people started manipulating and selling lands at ridiculously high prices in anticipation that they will get RM100 psf for tanah kebun in Pengerang!). They will use that as a guide of prevailing market price. All very transparent mah..
DeleteAll landowners have the rights to appoint their own independent land valuers to verify Valuation Department figures. Who pays for this? Ultimately the Company acquiring the land. The landowers need to submit the invoice to Land office and they will claim from the Company. Nobody has the right to tell you which valuation company to go for.
I have heard independent valuers who came all the way from KL to offer their services to kampung folks. Why not? They would get a fixed fee (say RM1,500) per land plot for valuing the land. If they managed to get 1,000 land plots, that's a cool RM1.5 million for going down to Pengerang from KL!
Don't la go accuse people when you don't know the details..
If Hasan Marican were still helming Petronas today, none of this nonsense would have happened. now the Petronas board is full of "yessir, yessir" people.
ReplyDeleteI heard that for the relocation of graves, Petronas is compensating RM7k for Chinese while the Malays get only a meagre RM3k. Imagine, initially, it was offered to the Malays at RM500. Can't figure out the rationale why the difference in compensation coz graves are the same whether Malays, Chinese or Indians! Why don't Petronas just pay the same amount for all graves, period.
ReplyDeleteJust answer this god damn question: Why 22,500 acres when Rapid only needs 6,000 acres?
ReplyDeleteJAWAB LA!!
Why acquire 22,600 acres when Rapid only require 6,000 acres?
ReplyDelete